Josh ([info]cardinalsin) wrote,
@ 2008-01-11 14:53:00
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Current mood: bored

Free range issues
So, what with Hugh Fearnley-Whittingstall and Jamie Oliver and the rest publicising the poor conditions of battery hens, [info]frax and I have been contemplating our diet. We only buy free-range eggs and meat anyway; but what we hadn't really considered previously was the produce that goes into such things as:

- KFC
- Chinese takeaway
- Ready meals
- Pre-prepared chicken sandwich
- Cakes, mayonnaise

These are in order of perceived obviousness. So, KFC - don't buy it, get a pizza instead (though presumably meaty pizzas hit the same territory). Chinese takeaway, much the same argument. It isn't as notorious as KFC for being skanky chicken, but presumably isn't free range. Ready meals - don't buy them if they have meat in. Chicken sandwich... I'm verging on the point where I can't be bothered. I buy a sandwich at the work canteen or Pret most days, and I like variety so occasionally it's chicken. Should I be boycotting this stuff? Or writing to them about the free-rangeness of their chicken? Cakes... now we're into really tough territory; do I really have to stop buying cakes because the eggs in them probably aren't free range? That's going to rule out a lot of potential foods. Mayonnaise, for example.

I don't want to buy battery-farmed (or in general non-free-range) produce if I can help it. But it usually isn't too hard - and for someone on my wages, too expensive - to get free-range meat and eggs. The question is, am I willing to put up with substantial inconvenience in this cause? Is it even possible to get mayonnaise with free range egg in it? Do I have to make my own?

Damn you, Hugh.




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[info]smiorgan
2008-01-11 04:11 pm UTC (link)
Why not write and ask Pret if they use free-range eggs and chicken? If they say they do then great, if they say they don't then it's at least good feedback to them about the tastes of their customers. And if they don't write back at all then it's proof positive that they're not groovy food hippies but actually vile chickenmongering fascists, just as we've always suspected. Like those innocent smoothie people. Fuckers.

Oh, and for cakes, you can always eat twinkies, which probably have as resemblance to ordinary cake as a badger has to a gun. Oh, wait a minute.

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[info]secondhand_rick
2008-01-11 04:18 pm UTC (link)
I don't like Pret A Manger, but that's because of their décor. It hurts my head just to be in one.

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Pret A Manger
[info]applez
2008-01-11 05:28 pm UTC (link)
Come Customer 13395/7, submit your Industrial Sandwich Model 10-B for debit-processing. Thank you, Come Again.

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[info]leathellin
2008-01-11 04:42 pm UTC (link)
Pret do write back and sometimes even change things. I complained about something and not only got a response but after a little while discovered they'd changed it (yay).

They specify that their egg sandwich is free range and it appears they have been watching the same TV programs so here is the answer on their chickens...

http://www.pret.com/sustainability/chickens/

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[info]cardinalsin
2008-01-15 12:32 pm UTC (link)
Hmmm... I'm not convinced that barn chickens meet my exacting standards. The trouble is, they may be right about it not being a commercially viable proposition.

Maybe I should just make my own damn sandwiches?

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[info]almostalady
2008-01-11 06:22 pm UTC (link)
I'm dubious about Innocent too. If it's really just fruit, how does it last that long??

*looks suspicious*

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[info]leathellin
2008-01-11 06:44 pm UTC (link)
Because it is pasturised.
I can't remember who it was but there was a Californian company(I think, that could just be the obvious state) who once tried distributing un-pasturised juices and eventually they poisoned someone. Which is a shame because I think un-pasturised juice tastes nicer.
Hurray for juicers.

Edited at 2008-01-11 06:45 pm UTC

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[info]cardinalsin
2008-01-15 12:49 pm UTC (link)
I'm quite slack about the business of writing to people. I prefer to outsource it by funding pressure groups. Which, come to think of it is not a bad idea. If I can find a pressure group other than the seemingly mad people at PETA then perhaps I'll pay them to write my letters for me.

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[info]undyingking
2008-01-11 04:14 pm UTC (link)
Making your own mayonnaise is easy, it's just whisking up a bunch of olive oil and egg yolk. You can do itin a food processor just by pourng in the oil while the egg whizzes round. And it'll taste nicer than bought!

Making your own cakes is easy too, for many values of cakes.

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[info]cardinalsin
2008-01-15 12:34 pm UTC (link)
Yeah - I'm just not sure that it will work out very well. Mayonnaise, I use rarely enough that home-made is likely to go off before it's used up, which seems a bit silly. Cake suffers from a similar problem - plus I'm sufficiently lazy to not want to put in the (admittedly fairly small) effort required to make a cake as frequently as I actually want to eat cake. Though I have been pondering whether you can freeze cake mix... that might enable the effort-free production of mini-cakes on demand.

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[info]undyingking
2008-01-15 12:47 pm UTC (link)
I'm not sure how well that would work, because if you tried to bake just a small quantity, it would have different cooking properties to baking a larger mass.

Better would be to make an ordinary-size cake, cut it into slices, and freeze each slice individually wrapped. Then you can just take a slice out of the freezer when you'll want one later that day -- by lunchtime it should be thawed.

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[info]secondhand_rick
2008-01-11 04:15 pm UTC (link)
If the lifestyle of standard chickens is giving you this much concern, then I suggest you take care to stay away from learning anything about intensive pig farming. If you're going to eat any pork, bacon, sausages, etc, you will want to make sure that it's UK bred. Here, at least, sow stalls have been banned.

do I really have to stop buying cakes because the eggs in them probably aren't free range?

It's the same as any ethical cause as far as I'm concerned; you have to decide for yourself how far it's appropriate for you to go. Unless it's labelled as free-range or organic, it won't be, so either accept that sometimes you'll be eating intensively reared chicken or battery farmed egg, or don't eat it. But only you and your conscience can make that decision.

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[info]secondhand_rick
2008-01-11 04:27 pm UTC (link)
Oh, and you might want to avoid learning too much about intensive fish farming too.

Check the fins of any whole fish you buy. If they've been intensely farmed, then the fins and tails will be pretty stumpy due to the cramped conditions. They will have been fed entirely on pellets, and this can both colour and flavour the meat.

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[info]applez
2008-01-11 05:26 pm UTC (link)
"cramped conditions" = they're eating eachothers' fins.

"colour and flavour the meat" = well, (better living through) chemistry offers the pinkest of pink salmon in those instances. ;-)

For fish: your best-bet is Tilapia or Catfish, and Tilapia can certainly be reared as vegetarians (not sure if 'herbivore' applies exactly). A quick check on farmed tilapia offerings can validate claims.

For fish & the UK: arguably, wild-caught may be better than either tilapia or catfish frozen-shipped from Thailand, Louisiana, or Africa.

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[info]cardinalsin
2008-01-15 12:47 pm UTC (link)
Yeah - there's definitely a limit on how much effort I'm prepared to put in. However, I am prepared to go reasonably far. For example we've been trying to buy duchy originals bacon, which is free range. My main problem with this kind of ethical shopping is that (unlike whole chickens, for example) it's relatively hassly to get free range stuff of a pigly variety. It means going to farm shops or using places like the one [info]applez links to. Maybe I should just go back to Abel and Cole and have done with it.

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[info]undyingking
2008-01-15 03:44 pm UTC (link)
duchy originals bacon

And then you end up supporting Prince Charles, which surely no-one wants to do. But I suppose it's acceptable if the only practical alternative is torturing pigs to death.

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[info]cardinalsin
2008-01-15 08:32 pm UTC (link)
Heh, actually I've found a butchers that does locally-sourced free range pork, as well as beef from a local farm and free range chicken, also from the southeast. So I'm feeling pretty pleased with myself. So long, Charlie ;o)

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I'll not poke through the 'free-range' marketing then
[info]applez
2008-01-11 05:22 pm UTC (link)
"Free-range" in many instances is very far from Old MacDonald's Farm.

Mayonnaise question: yes, as seen here, with this UK offering:

Kite Wholefoods:-
Organic free range mayonaisse, egg free mayonaisse, organic mincemeat and organic Christmas puddings
Located: OB Key

38 Ffordd Aneurin, Pontyberek,
Carmarthenshire, SA15 5DF
Phone:01269 871035
Web site:www.kitewholefoods.co.uk


I seem to recall seeing 'vegetarian' mayo on a couple of stores' shelves here.

---

Ultimately, it comes to what values system you have developed for a food decisionmaking tree.

Free-range or not, perhaps grazing goats & sheep are a better ecological choice for the UK than chicken? Or, perhaps it's a matter of affinity, and who cares the cruel life of battery-chickens when there's a whole lot of mammalian welfare to consider first?

To be honest, since returning to meat-eating, I haven't given this nearly as much thought as I should, so I can hardly lecture you two. I do default to eating birds & swine though, it seems.



Edited at 2008-01-11 05:22 pm UTC

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Re: I'll not poke through the 'free-range' marketing then
[info]cardinalsin
2008-01-15 12:44 pm UTC (link)
Thanks for the linkie... that looks like a good site. I have slight worries (cf my conversation with [info]undyingking) about the longevity of this mayo, but it's worth a try.

Re the eco-question: I tend to regard it as the government's problem to sort out the emissions, environmental degradation etc to the extent that it is required. My role is then to lobby them to actually do something about said problem. I don't believe it's feasible for me to make informed ecological choices given the number of variables in play (how was the food produced, how much packaging is used, how far has it travelled (Carmarthenshire is right out as far as CO2 emissions are concerned), and so on). What I'd like to see is something like the emissions trading scheme the govt are talking about, so that my effect on the environment is reflected in the price of the goods I buy. No idea whether this can work for issues beyond CO2 emissions.

I do however have a fairly clear values system on animal welfare. I do believe that animals have feelings, whatever that means. I certainly don't mean this in an anthropomorphic, animals are people too way. Just that animal welfare does count for something. Hence the seeking after free range. However I'm sufficiently heartless/greedy, and sufficiently content that meat-eating can be ethical if done right, that I haven't switched to vegetarian.

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Re: I'll not poke through the 'free-range' marketing then
[info]applez
2008-01-15 02:35 pm UTC (link)
re: longevity of mayo - I thought the pH level of mayo guaranteed some longevity.

re: emissions trading scheme - yeah, what I'm finding increasingly interesting is the chorus from industry & finance people I know who want regulation, and increasingly a flat carbon tax. It makes some amount of sense, I suppose - making the government fully liable for the solutions required. Problem is, it's all a bit "deck chairs on the Titanic" if you know what I mean.

re: animal welfare - oh yes, I know you & Becky have a strong sense for animal welfare, but I don't know how fleshed out (no pun intended) that may be. Incidentally, I'm enjoying a really interesting book right now, Omnivore's Dilemma which I suggest you both give it a go. :-)

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